This is research paper quality, better than one of those studies posted on a hospital website. The ability to make a college essay out of boredom is a pretty underrated trait you have.
I've found I gel with people much better while smoking (nicotine), and I don't think that's an uncommon sentiment, though could be more true for us autists. It helps that it not only calms the nerves but acts as a stim which doesn't get weird looks. I wonder how much that helped people mask in the recent past.
This is so well-researched, and I loved most of this post. I did have an issue with one of your conclusions. The story you mentioned, about the boy with autism who "approached a girl by touching her on the arm" and was sentenced to sexual assault? The takeaway is not "be awkward when approaching a girl and touch her and you'll be a sex offender". I looked into the story, and you're missing a lot of context.
He was a 19-year-old university student who came up to talk to this high school girl TWICE as she was walking to and from her high school. He did not talk to her, he just came up to her and touched her on the arm and the hip. “I had seen her in the school and I turned around and I went to touch her arm to start a conversation and she just walked off.” When he moved toward her, she said "stop" and moved out of the way. If she hadn't turned at the last moment, he would have touched her breast.
Along with googling "how to make a friend", the police found on his phone deleted messages to a family member where he admitted to touching her and that it wasn't a one-time incident, and the family member responded "so you grabbed her butt and then ran immediately?". He also was convicted of causing criminal damage at that same high school - again, that he did not attend.
Can you imagine being a high school girl and on your way home from school, a strange man just comes up to you and grabs your arm? And then a couple weeks later that same man finds you on your way to school AGAIN and this time grabs your hip and smirks at you, saying nothing the whole time? That's scary.
I agree with your main premise, and I think you did a really good job breaking down what social skills are and the specific ways in which people with autism have deficits in those areas. But this MRA wet dream framing of this story isn't correct.
Personally, as a guy on the spectrum, I really like the apps as I don't have to put much effort it to meeting women and I don’t have to try in person. I have never approached a woman in person (I’m 32 in a few months) as it is always creepy and harassment to do so and is guaranteed to have a bad response.
The apps at least help me to filter out interested women.
Women have approached me in the past quite a few times so that’s how I would meet them in person. Although none really approached me the other night when I went out, which was a shame
I even avoid looking at women at the gym, stores, public transport, etc as I don't want to be inappropriate. I even get up and move if they sit next to me on public transport.
Believe it or not I have plenty of male friends and make new ones pretty easily, particularly in person. I just worry about the repercussions of talking to women in person first. The potential risks are certainly plentiful (arrest, getting physically attacked, fired, etc) and so I'd rather not risk it.
I do have a source - I did just a bit more Googling. Most articles do frame it that way, you're right, but at least one did just a bit more actual reporting and gave more context.
Again. You're a teenage girl and twice on your way walking to school and back, an adult man just comes up to you and puts his hands on you - after you say stop - then walks away without saying anything. The phrasing of "tries to talk to her" is misleading. He does not say one word to her, he just approaches her and grabs her, TWICE. You can't see how that would be scary and cause a lot of upset? Not to mention, having to go through a court case about it, testifying again, recalling in specific detail to a bunch of strangers about a time you felt humiliated and scared?
I would love to tell you about gay men, neutotypical or not, and sex sometime. I’ve had sex with thousands of men (thankfully immune to HIV due to homozygocity for CCR5 delta-32) and men on the spectrum are strikingly clear to me for obvious reasons I’ve not thought too deeply about.
I could walk through a bar and almost point to them walking past; similar to the well-known effect of gaydar. Likewise for anonymous sex the overwhelming majority of men in bars, sex clubs and backrooms are described precisely by this article. Very poor eye contact, lack of fluid movement, mismatched body synchrony, challenging conversation…
But to be honest, often delicious sex. These men often radiate an urgency of desire which is very exciting, though not particular bonding, which is very captivating. Without going into anatomical act detail, it’s wonderful. Somehow I always get along swimmingly with these fellows, who are almost the definition of No Strings Attached.
I can’t recall about 100-150 situations or more (I have very fine-detailed almost filmic episodic memory with emotions) where the man I met at a bar or in a hotel room, wherever, was tense and jumpy not because of sex anxiety, but being with someone and having to talk anxiety. I found it sexy, ans charming, and real. I place a high value on real and not acted in physical sex. I was always able to find a way to put these men at ease instantly, and never quite knew what I did, but it was basically matching their quietly or awkward presentation, made sure the more always they felt free to let loose the more I was into it. From 40-60 I was a fantasy bodybuilder dad look, well endowed and happy to talk about anything, highly repetitive. counting numbers to the listening and describing the sound of different church bells
When these men let go, it was explosive. I’m just sorry more can’t experience that because they don’t get that the nervousness due to lack of inhibition is the bonus. My ideal fantasy date would be uncontrolled Tourette going full blast with my keeping up foe a weekend, I’ve
Only had that chance accidentally twice.
I have to think carefully, my adult life has mostly been around these men at Caltech and elsewhere, but they gravitate to me, and I appreciate them. I’ve learned. It’s worth it
Autistic incels have always been with us. It's the autism itself that causes involuntary celebacy. Not autism and pornography, which certainly has its own problems, but all of said problems are minor compared to the big problem of everything about ASD being a massive handicap in the acquisition of sexual companionship. Particularly that of female sexual companionship: the increased sex drive, the poor social skills, the awkward facial and bodily movements; autism is an endless series of barriers to both sex life and family life.
If anything, pornography is largely helpful to the world's incels, as it provides a free outlet to sex drives which aren't getting fulfilled anywhere else. We should seek to alleviate this with actual sex by liberalizing enployment law to make it easier for uncredentialed high-Q spergs to start immediately in the work world in positions where they can make effective use of their intellects, as well as by legalizing prositution and ending our foolish quest for sexual communism. But even all that would still leave us with a lot of lonely, sexually-dysfunctional autists in the world, who are either outright incels or incel adjacent. Treating, and eventually curing ASD will be our only hope of putting an end to such.
Do you have any idea how many historical figures were basically incels before the age of the Internet or MMR or anything else people blame for autism? Such as Beethoven or Adam Smith or Isaac Newton?
The answer is autistic separatism. Many social "deficits" are merely between us and allists, not each other. It's not a silver bullet, especially when it comes to dating, but it's a start.
Personally, as a guy on the spectrum, I really like the apps as I don't have to put much effort it to meeting women and I don’t have to try in person. I have never approached a woman in person (I’m 32 in a few months) as it is always creepy and harassment to do so and is guaranteed to have a bad response.
The apps at least help me to filter out interested women.
Women have approached me in the past quite a few times so that’s how I would meet them in person. Although none really approached me the other night when I went out, which was a shame
I even avoid looking at women at the gym, stores, public transport, etc as I don't want to be inappropriate. I even get up and move if they sit next to me on public transport.
Believe it or not I have plenty of male friends and make new ones pretty easily, particularly in person. I just worry about the repercussions of talking to women in person first. The potential risks are certainly plentiful (arrest, getting physically attacked, fired, etc) and so I'd rather not risk it.
ASD is one of the biggest overall health and quality of life issues in the entire world today. It's relevant to anyone who cares about either human intelligence or human flourishing.
This is research paper quality, better than one of those studies posted on a hospital website. The ability to make a college essay out of boredom is a pretty underrated trait you have.
I've found I gel with people much better while smoking (nicotine), and I don't think that's an uncommon sentiment, though could be more true for us autists. It helps that it not only calms the nerves but acts as a stim which doesn't get weird looks. I wonder how much that helped people mask in the recent past.
Yep. NTs find us vaguely disgusting and unsettling.
This is so well-researched, and I loved most of this post. I did have an issue with one of your conclusions. The story you mentioned, about the boy with autism who "approached a girl by touching her on the arm" and was sentenced to sexual assault? The takeaway is not "be awkward when approaching a girl and touch her and you'll be a sex offender". I looked into the story, and you're missing a lot of context.
He was a 19-year-old university student who came up to talk to this high school girl TWICE as she was walking to and from her high school. He did not talk to her, he just came up to her and touched her on the arm and the hip. “I had seen her in the school and I turned around and I went to touch her arm to start a conversation and she just walked off.” When he moved toward her, she said "stop" and moved out of the way. If she hadn't turned at the last moment, he would have touched her breast.
Along with googling "how to make a friend", the police found on his phone deleted messages to a family member where he admitted to touching her and that it wasn't a one-time incident, and the family member responded "so you grabbed her butt and then ran immediately?". He also was convicted of causing criminal damage at that same high school - again, that he did not attend.
Can you imagine being a high school girl and on your way home from school, a strange man just comes up to you and grabs your arm? And then a couple weeks later that same man finds you on your way to school AGAIN and this time grabs your hip and smirks at you, saying nothing the whole time? That's scary.
I agree with your main premise, and I think you did a really good job breaking down what social skills are and the specific ways in which people with autism have deficits in those areas. But this MRA wet dream framing of this story isn't correct.
Maybe it's just better if men didn't approach women at all?
Personally, as a guy on the spectrum, I really like the apps as I don't have to put much effort it to meeting women and I don’t have to try in person. I have never approached a woman in person (I’m 32 in a few months) as it is always creepy and harassment to do so and is guaranteed to have a bad response.
The apps at least help me to filter out interested women.
Women have approached me in the past quite a few times so that’s how I would meet them in person. Although none really approached me the other night when I went out, which was a shame
I even avoid looking at women at the gym, stores, public transport, etc as I don't want to be inappropriate. I even get up and move if they sit next to me on public transport.
Believe it or not I have plenty of male friends and make new ones pretty easily, particularly in person. I just worry about the repercussions of talking to women in person first. The potential risks are certainly plentiful (arrest, getting physically attacked, fired, etc) and so I'd rather not risk it.
I do have a source - I did just a bit more Googling. Most articles do frame it that way, you're right, but at least one did just a bit more actual reporting and gave more context.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/touching-teenage-girl-way-home-17061816
Again. You're a teenage girl and twice on your way walking to school and back, an adult man just comes up to you and puts his hands on you - after you say stop - then walks away without saying anything. The phrasing of "tries to talk to her" is misleading. He does not say one word to her, he just approaches her and grabs her, TWICE. You can't see how that would be scary and cause a lot of upset? Not to mention, having to go through a court case about it, testifying again, recalling in specific detail to a bunch of strangers about a time you felt humiliated and scared?
I mean, it's always creepy to approach women, so I guess that also comes into play.
I'm not American.
Talking to women/approaching them is harassment unless you give them the green light, particularly if they find you unattractive.
If men didn't talk to women and avoided them, then harassment would go down too. Correct? Isn't that a good thing?
Massive detailed and fascinating! Thanks.
I would love to tell you about gay men, neutotypical or not, and sex sometime. I’ve had sex with thousands of men (thankfully immune to HIV due to homozygocity for CCR5 delta-32) and men on the spectrum are strikingly clear to me for obvious reasons I’ve not thought too deeply about.
I could walk through a bar and almost point to them walking past; similar to the well-known effect of gaydar. Likewise for anonymous sex the overwhelming majority of men in bars, sex clubs and backrooms are described precisely by this article. Very poor eye contact, lack of fluid movement, mismatched body synchrony, challenging conversation…
But to be honest, often delicious sex. These men often radiate an urgency of desire which is very exciting, though not particular bonding, which is very captivating. Without going into anatomical act detail, it’s wonderful. Somehow I always get along swimmingly with these fellows, who are almost the definition of No Strings Attached.
I can’t recall about 100-150 situations or more (I have very fine-detailed almost filmic episodic memory with emotions) where the man I met at a bar or in a hotel room, wherever, was tense and jumpy not because of sex anxiety, but being with someone and having to talk anxiety. I found it sexy, ans charming, and real. I place a high value on real and not acted in physical sex. I was always able to find a way to put these men at ease instantly, and never quite knew what I did, but it was basically matching their quietly or awkward presentation, made sure the more always they felt free to let loose the more I was into it. From 40-60 I was a fantasy bodybuilder dad look, well endowed and happy to talk about anything, highly repetitive. counting numbers to the listening and describing the sound of different church bells
When these men let go, it was explosive. I’m just sorry more can’t experience that because they don’t get that the nervousness due to lack of inhibition is the bonus. My ideal fantasy date would be uncontrolled Tourette going full blast with my keeping up foe a weekend, I’ve
Only had that chance accidentally twice.
I have to think carefully, my adult life has mostly been around these men at Caltech and elsewhere, but they gravitate to me, and I appreciate them. I’ve learned. It’s worth it
.
looks like my bloodline will truly end with me. oh well. the world is too fucked for the next generation anyway
Porno companies target and destroy these boys. Porn + Autism = Incels
Autistic incels have always been with us. It's the autism itself that causes involuntary celebacy. Not autism and pornography, which certainly has its own problems, but all of said problems are minor compared to the big problem of everything about ASD being a massive handicap in the acquisition of sexual companionship. Particularly that of female sexual companionship: the increased sex drive, the poor social skills, the awkward facial and bodily movements; autism is an endless series of barriers to both sex life and family life.
If anything, pornography is largely helpful to the world's incels, as it provides a free outlet to sex drives which aren't getting fulfilled anywhere else. We should seek to alleviate this with actual sex by liberalizing enployment law to make it easier for uncredentialed high-Q spergs to start immediately in the work world in positions where they can make effective use of their intellects, as well as by legalizing prositution and ending our foolish quest for sexual communism. But even all that would still leave us with a lot of lonely, sexually-dysfunctional autists in the world, who are either outright incels or incel adjacent. Treating, and eventually curing ASD will be our only hope of putting an end to such.
bullshit
Do you have any idea how many historical figures were basically incels before the age of the Internet or MMR or anything else people blame for autism? Such as Beethoven or Adam Smith or Isaac Newton?
The answer is autistic separatism. Many social "deficits" are merely between us and allists, not each other. It's not a silver bullet, especially when it comes to dating, but it's a start.
Personally, as a guy on the spectrum, I really like the apps as I don't have to put much effort it to meeting women and I don’t have to try in person. I have never approached a woman in person (I’m 32 in a few months) as it is always creepy and harassment to do so and is guaranteed to have a bad response.
The apps at least help me to filter out interested women.
Women have approached me in the past quite a few times so that’s how I would meet them in person. Although none really approached me the other night when I went out, which was a shame
I even avoid looking at women at the gym, stores, public transport, etc as I don't want to be inappropriate. I even get up and move if they sit next to me on public transport.
Believe it or not I have plenty of male friends and make new ones pretty easily, particularly in person. I just worry about the repercussions of talking to women in person first. The potential risks are certainly plentiful (arrest, getting physically attacked, fired, etc) and so I'd rather not risk it.
Truly, the preferences of allists are immoral and must be abolished.
Do you have Asperger's? This is an incredibly detailed post about something few care about lol
ASD is one of the biggest overall health and quality of life issues in the entire world today. It's relevant to anyone who cares about either human intelligence or human flourishing.
I have it so it'd be great if more people felt this way, so few people do hence my question to the author.
You can probably work it out yourself. Like I said, social aptitude isn't uniform across NTs, so differences between them matter as well.
Brilliant
> Regardless of what is felt internally, they are often perceived as affectively flat and unresponsive,
Isn’t that what you do when you learn that noöne gives a fuck about your feelings? Oh, well, bullies do care, since it helps them bully you better.
Such a well written piece. Well done 👍